Yeah, socialism and unions are just awful!

Yeah, personally I don't give a fuck who they push - anyone can be booked to be entertaining. Goldberg is (was) a more limited worker than Val Venis, but was booked in such a way that he was, at one point, the most over babyface in the sport. If the cost of avoiding another death like Benoit's or Eddie's is having Val Venis in the main event then I can certainly live with that. And, of course, Mark Henry already does get a push for being there a long time. WWE has a tendancy to reward the guys who show them loyalty and just do their job for a long time, which is good, but it's applied totally inconsistantly and you get situations like Test's, where he loses his job after a serious neck injury.

I'd rather know that I'm guaranteed a certain level of healthcare whatever happens though than just be totally fucked if I don't have medical insurance. Plus this is another one of those situations where, whatever people in the US use as arguments, everywhere else in the world just considers it a hallmark of civilised society.

You know, like disagreeing with the death penalty and beliving in evolution. You're the only people who really think there's a debate about it.

Well thats a bit of an over generalization. But God forbid someone might have a different opinion than you...for the record it certainly isn't a majority of the population that thinks 'backwards.'

If people want to believe that the world didn't start till Jesus came, let them. Who gives a shit?

I do agree that better some health care than none, but thats just too shortsighted for me. Private insurance is good, but they need to change their policies. Part time workers should be allowed coverage. They're making a mint, they can pass it along to the rest of us. I'll happily pay into a system that works but it needs to work for everyone.

No, that's not what I meant - I'm just saying that things that are debates in America tend not to be debates elsewhere. It was my way of dodging the whole "is universal healthcare a good idea" argument since I don't think there's even any point arguing: to me, it is self-evidently better than the alternative because I come from a country that has it.

There is a gross misunderstanding when it comes to healthcare in Europe contra in the US. The US sytem seems (I'm by no means an expert and to be honest I can't be assed to check so I'll go with "common knowledge") based on private insuranbce funds and getting your own healthcare as opposed to the European way of paying for whatever healthcare you need through taxes.

Now to me it seems that this is a bit of a sensitive matter to some americans as it is in a way paying for other people's healthcare, at the same time they are happy to pay good money that unless they do get ill end up in the pockets of insurance companies.

Over here the insureance idea has taken some ground but the wast majority here still see the "pay through the taxes" as ok and fair, I mean you won't find me complaining that some of my tax money gets used to patch up some juniie after he has an accient while high as a kite(and his teeth are green, merry fucking christmas!).

In my book the whole issue is a individualistic vs community thing, judging by the way the US seems to operate, the country is built on the foundation of the efforts of the individual, the lone hero, the man who came from nothing and reached the peaks of wealth.

In Europe "social climbers" get their share of applaudes, but after around a millennia or two of powers shifting back and forth and along with them the borders, Europeans have grown to become more of community creatures, success comes from a collective effort more ofetn then from a strong willed person.

I have to be honest and say that even without having lived in the US and truly experienced the system that US healthcare runs on, that I do prefer the European way of doing things, I think it pays more attnetion to the individual and the rights of said individual.

To me (and to Thommy by the sound of things), healthcare and accessile hospitals and doctors is not only something that a citizzen of any counbtry can demand, it's a human right.

After all what insurabce company can put a true and fair price tag on life?

I think you need a certain amount of socialism anyway though, don't you? I mean, if you take capitalism to its absolute extreme, a 'nation' is really just millions of competing businesses in the form of individuals who are all out for number one.

Reminds me; I was watching 'Becker' for some reason the other day and the character played by the woman who was Dax in DS9 had a boyfriend who was 'too nice', so she was arguing with him and trying to find something he hated and she said "what about taxes? Everyone hates taxes!" and he said that he may not like to pay them, but they provide the money for fire and police departments, so he's happy to contribute because he'll want them there if something goes wrong. For some reason, this perfectly sensible opinion got a laugh and Dax looked incredulous, as if we should think this guy was insane.

That's not exactly a surprise, the US political lanscape is shifted a fair ammount to the right compared with ours. And disgust with taxes is the hallmark of right-wing ideaology. The basis of their political ideas definbe taxes as money paid used for the benefit of others who may not be deserving of the funds.

Yes, this sounds a bit heavy handed on my part but given my own left slant it's the best and fairest explanation you are going to get out of me.

School's out, i don't wanna read all that.